33 Responses to KINK.COM in SAN FRANCISCO: (continued)

  1. Kink.com comments continued:
    ——————
    “Pretty exploitive I think, and rather ironic.”
    That would be the insincere efforts of one posting here, whose self-described “work” provides image and example for the lessons of abusing, degrading and harming women.
    From Commenter: Pony
    2007-04-13 18:12:31
    ——————
    You know what is IRONIC? Renegade has a picture on her blog at the top of a post bitching about Melisa Farley. That picture is of a magazine cover. Now Renegade, honey, the women on that magazine cover did not give you permission to use it on your blog. Yet you used it anyway. Did you get their permission? Ya, I didn’t think so.
    You’re tiny little argument, originally designed to make feminists feel bad for posting pictures of porn without victim consent is now, well, kinda moot.
    So before you go getting your – -DELETED – – about those mean and nasty feminists, take a look in the mirror. Sometimes you gotta use an image to make a point. Even YOU do it!
    Oh the hypocracy.
    Seriously.
    From Commenter: well
    2007-04-13 23:09:36
    ————
    Ren says – “And no one needs to tell me how people are treated once branded a whore. I know. Your feelings cease to exist in the eyes of other people…and not just men”
    Sorry renegade but now we have the “poor little whore mememe games” you are well enough known by now for us to have seen this —oh – how many times now. STOP trying to derail radical feminists work!
    You are totally transparent – except to your little Foot Soldiers that is.
    From Commenter: LauraLytlle
    2007-04-14 17:29:58
    ————
    Hello again…
    Betsy Warrior, you are mistaken when you say I am abused. I am not. I am a masochist, I am an exhibitionist. I ENJOY the sensation of pain during intimacy, and I like high intensities of pain. As it is desired, its in no way abuse. Being a model on my friends BDSM website wasnt abusive either; it was empowering and liberating. I could BE a sexual free being, in the style that was true and authentic for me.
    Yes, the plight of trafficked women and forced women is terrible. That doesnt mean all porn should be banned, it means we should go after traffickers.
    Chain
    From Commenter: Chain
    2007-04-14 20:04:54
    ————
    Listen, all am I asking is that you all ponder the thoughts of the women whose images you are using. Why is that such a horrible thing to ask?
    In any event, I’ve had enough, really. Ask a question, get attacked. Seen it before, I’m sure I’ll see it again.
    From Commenter: RenegadeEvolution
    2007-04-15 00:51:12
    ————
    Doing just that is one of the mandates of radial feminism. At any rate, the question was answered before you ever posed it, which is why we don’t believe you, and in fact, I for one am becoming embarrassed for you.
    “{…ponder the thoughts of the women whose images you are using.”
    Pony
    2007-04-15 13:17:04
    ————

  2. In response to comments by survivors of torture and other sexual abuse, we have placed a warning and additional link to the photograph of kink.com torture. Traffick Jamming visitors can now choose if and when they look at the photographs.

  3. Please DO look at the photographs, which are not owned by the people depicted, but by the torturers.
    As long as the only people who see these and others like them are the torturers and torture and pornography consumers, women haters, abusers and traffickers win, because ordinary people will not see what pornography is really about.

  4. “Listen, all am I asking is that you all ponder the thoughts of the women whose images you are using. Why is that such a horrible thing to ask?
    In any event, I’ve had enough, really. Ask a question, get attacked.”
    Your question was answered earlier – what you did NOT do is answer why you felt justified creating such a stink against anti-porn feminists to use the images when you yourself used the exact same ones, also without asking their consent.
    So in order to avoid explaining yourself for doing the exact same thing, you play ‘the sympathy card’. Your tactics grow tiresome and very, very predictable.

  5. RE says -“In any event, I’ve had enough, really. Ask a question, get attacked. Seen it before, I’m sure I’ll see it again.”
    Renegade – well we don’t even “ask questions” and we get attacked post after post after post on your blog. In fact, you give a hugely disproportionate amount of energy to just doing that — attacking radical feminists.

  6. I looked on the site, and I agree with Lucy on one point, I believe a major one: They feature interviews with the girls, who say how much they liked being bound, gagged, and humiliated, reinforcing an already too-dominant stereotype about women liking abuse. The producers may be enlightened about the difference between real and “game” abuse, but it’s a pretty safe bet that many of the consumers are not. One study on MSNBC recently showed that a large percentage of the internet porn audiences are adolescent boys. What are they taking away from their views of kink.com?
    In addition, much of the world’s population are victims of real abuse, and to dress up and play off the torments of the suffering as an internet party game is extremely insulting to those who have actually endured these degrading assaults in real life.

  7. I cannot even begin to express my frustration at the comments being made in regards to the content of mel’s original post. There have been a number of arguments -with valid points being made for either side. Many of which have caused me to seriously reflect on my stance on this issue. However, ultimately I believe that the anti-kink.com argument is incomplete in its evaluation this company. As well, the attacks on companies such as this do not further your goals to prevent true abuse and help those that are repressed, exploited and are in need.
    The matter in question can be separated into 2 dimensions. Firstly, whether or not the participants in the pornography are actually consenting individuals. Additionally, the perceived correlation between one viewing pornography and then carrying out such things in real life.
    I am frustrated that individuals that choose to comment on this site use their supposed “knowledge” about this porn website as ammunition against it. Not being frequenter of the site or possessing depth of knowledge of the reputation of the company or the subculture how can you with good conscience make your judgments about it? It is quite understandable that if you disagree with this sort of subject matter you won’t have explored this in depth. These women (and men) are interviewed extensively and there is explicit consent recorded on video on much of the site. There are many times that sessions have been cut short because of the participant discovering that this type of sexual play is not for them. A great number of the models are regulars on the site — they come back because they enjoy bdsm. They may practice it in their personal lives as well and see no problem in having photos of themselves online. To claim that they do not understand the implications of participating in such things is patronizing and frankly a bit ridiculous.
    On a side note: to those who don’t know –in bdsm — when entering into a session the participants choose a verbal safe word as well as a non verbal safe gesture. At any point in the session the individual can stop it entirely by using a chosen word or gesture. That is how one differentiates between a good keeping going “no” and an actual stop. Individuals who do not respect this agreement quickly find themselves without partners to play with.
    Moving on — the correlation between watching and doing. I must admit — there are some really retarded people in the world that get carried away and bring what they fantasize about into reality. There are a great number of people who enjoy bdsm material — you don’t see them all going off to rape someone. No. These people who cannot differentiate between what is essentially right and wrong in reality already do not have a firm grasp on reality and their actions should not be blamed on what media they choose to consume nor should it reflect on others who choose to view the media as well.
    How can you claim that this sort of pornographic material can corrupt an individual into finding it enjoyable? Repeated exposure to something such as this may cause a person to grow accustomed just like repeated exposure to anything can. But cannot change person’s like or dislike of it! I believe that if one is so inclined already by one way or another — they will actively seek out this material.
    At first when I saw the comparison between kink.com and Abu Ghraib I was horrified and angry. You manipulated information and drew a comparison between consensual sexual acts and the disgusting actions of soldiers blinded by power. They don’t have any correlation to each other — yes the physical actions themselves may seem similar in that yes it is torture. But the mentalities of the participants are entirely different. Not viewing from within the culture of bdsm I understand how it may be difficult to understand the nuances and differences between being “taken advantage of” because you like it and being taken advantage of — but the difference is there.
    A great deal of evidence suggests that the models are there by their own will. If that is true and pornography is not the cause of certain depravities but just a byproduct of pre-existing desires what are you doing other than just pointing the finger and trying to catalyze the emotions of certain readers which ultimately will not help the true issue of helping exploited women. If you want to create change in the world don’t go about sensationalizing things and picking on a company that has done much in its power to create a sensible outlet for individuals who enjoy this type of sexual activity. Sensationalizing something just creates strong emotional attachment to an issue which creates extremists and radicals. The world doesn’t need anymore extremists or radicals of any kind. I understand you want to create awareness that there are people being exploited and are in desperate need of help but please don’t go about it in this way.
    By the way, why is there an assumption being made that the men portrayed on kink.com websites are gay? Is it because they are being shown in a submission role being dominated by women? Please re-evaluate your decision for that particular title.
    Also, by the way, prostitution is a completely valid profession. It has existed in some form or another throughout the world, throughout history and pretty much comes with being human. Don’t tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body.

  8. Although I am a radical feminist, and cast my lot with anti-porn and prostitution, RenegadeEvolution does raise a good question. The answer is, we are. People going to anti-porn conferences and such won’t view the women they see in the pornography as “dirty sluts” or other misogynist names. Also, the question needs to be posed to people profiting off the use of the images for men to masturbate too, not those who use it to show opposition to it. I’m not saying you don’t, but are radfems the big baddies here? I’d say no.

  9. Also, I think the most important issue here is not whether an individual consents to sadism and prostitution, but what those acts mean. What does it mean when one eroticises oppression, violence, harm, inequality. What does it mean when our erotisism is modeled on the father who rapes his daughter, the jailer who beats the prisoner, the gay basher who “smears the queer,” the owner who whips his slave, and so on? Why are the acts and people we are fighting against in non-sexual contexts the subjects of supposedly liberated sexuality? For example, what amount of self hatred and hatred towards “one’s kind” does it take for a gay man to write, watch, etc. pornography in which a gay man is beaten and raped by men as part of a gay bashing? What kind of hatred of femininity and women does it take for a top, female or male, to call their bottom, female or male, misogynist and homophobic names? Why have we dealt with violence by assimilating it?

  10. So, men being abused at Aru Gharib = bad.
    Women being abused = sexxxaayyy!!
    Bullshit. People who defend this shit are hypocrites.
    Period.
    There’s a reason you think it’s sexy to torture a woman – porn. There’s a few reasons porn that like gets made – misogyny and money.
    Tell yourself whatever lies you need to sleep at night.
    The truth is you’re irrelevant. What you are doing is harming others. You know it. We know it.
    Time to grow up and admit it.

  11. M says: “don’t tell a woman what she can or can’t do with her body”. Sorry, but pimps do that everyday of the week.

  12. I’ll admit, when I first saw the picture at the head of this blog, my reaction was “How awful!” not “I wonder if this woman gave her consent for her picture to be posted here?”. But this is one picture, there are a million porn images all over the Internet and, aside from radical feminists, who EVER wonders if they gave their consent for their pictures to be used in this way?
    I’m sure the big porn producers cover themselves with consent forms ad nauseum, but even home movies can be posted as porn online. Anybody tried to get one taken off when they argued that they haven’t given their consent to its use? How far did they get?
    The woman in the picture matters. That’s what this is all about. Otherwise, all the feminists could go home and try to cut the best deal they can with the patriarchy.

  13. We’ve heard a lot about consent and non-consent of the people in these photographs. As usual, someone is being overlooked, the one doing the torturing. We hear this all the time”I like being abused” How about some confessions of “i like abusing people, but its just my sexuality; its not like its real life or anything.”
    Also, there are bdsm sites all over the Net where you can find a “consenting partner”; kink.com is not a charitable institution.

  14. Andrew raises an excellent point. What about the “top’s”/”S’s” responsibility? They are harming another person? What in their head makes them go “OK this woman wants me to pretend to be her rapist stepfather” or “this man wants me to call him a worthless c***. sounds fun” or whatever. just because someone wants you to hurt them doesn’t mean you should. if someone wanted me to “top” them, my response would be “holy crap…what happened? i’m not going to cause further abuse.” meaning, something happened (e.g. father-daughter incest, abusive relationship) to make them that way. masochists are made, not born.
    has anyone read sheila jeffreys (e.g. unpacking queer politics, beauty and misogyny) or marilee strong (a bright red scream). they both argue that the desire to mutilate oneself or be mutilated by others comes from the same source–past traumas, such as illness, child sexual abuse, depression, homophobia, etc.
    Lastly, M: I’ve read many books on sadopatriarchy (“S and m”), both for and against, and seen SM porn, so please don’t assume that because we are against it, it’s just because we’ve never seen it and don’t really know what it’s about. Please. For example, I’ve read SM porn and been driven to tears. Others have reported finding such material to be triggering of memories of past abuse.

  15. I’m sorry to see the picture taken off this page.
    I’m so sick of seeing kink.com described as a porn company, especially in San Francisco, home of everything naughty.
    Kink.com is not about porn, it is about torture and pain. They sell pain. They make money off this woman’s pain. But, we are all supposed to look away because it’s “consensual” and she signed a piece of paper saying that kink.com could sell the video of her being tortured and humiliated.
    Well I’m not looking away. I’m looking directly at the evidence. And if you look at it, you can’t really call it harmless. It hurts everyone involved in it and it hurts everyone who sees it. It’s not cute or edgy or fun or alternative or hip. It is torture.

  16. Shana – the kink.com torture photo has not been removed. A paragraph describing the photo has been added at the top of the blog, so that before opening the photo viewers are forewarned. It’s still there! Please download it, make a poster of it, and use it in your community to let people know what’s out there.

  17. The fact that using nude pictures of women (or men, frankly) to bolster diatribes against pornography is the best way to do it should never justify disregard for the women involved in the job. Even starting off from a strongly anti-porn perspective, that turns this sort of discussion into a fight with both pro and antiporn sides pulling sex workers from either direction.
    Sex workers should always be at the forefront of their own liberation, not marginalised by bourgeois feminists concerned that noone will take a “whore” seriously. The wide distrust distrust of porn actors and prostitutes (particularly when they’re women) shouldn’t be cooperated with by feminism, and neither should the exploitation of pornographic imagery.

  18. While it is easy to see that many are passionate about this subject, those that are condemning Kink.com and such sites seem be be doing so based on irrational argument, with no logical evidence.
    We all know that people are abused in all walks of life, it is not surprising that will include some who work on such sites, but to extrapolate from that, the idea that all people on such sites are abused is nonsense and patronising to them.
    If you present a harrowing story of someone abused whilest working as a dental nurse, that is not evidence that all Dentists abuse their nurses. The correlation is irrational and pointless.
    The view that there is a ‘dominant stereotype’ of women liking abuse is absurd and a distorted view of reality.
    As for dressing torture up as a ‘party game’, this is nothing new and we do the same with murder all the time and have done thoughout history, in all genres of entertainment, even fairytales. It is human nature to play out scenes of horror for our own entertainment. Why? Well that is a more fundamental question than we are discussing here, but the ‘play acting’ aspect of this, is not in itself immoral, it is normal human behaviour.

  19. “We do the same thing with murder all the time”. In a fairy tale, the real people listening don’t die. In S&M people do get hurt all the time, not always intentionally. Based on the testimony of those who have been there and my own knowledge, there seems to be a dynamic to porn and sex “games” such as S&m to always be pushing to more extremes. THe thrill of the ordinary wears off and people seek the next thrill. Porn has been emancipated for over a generation and continues to push the envelope of what can be shown. THings that were available only with great diffficulty on the edge of town when I was younger are now openly displayed, and, I assume, consumed. The question is not only why, as Steven points out, but also, what is the psychological harm of being involved in these activities, over and above the physical damage. I am not advocating policing the bedroom, but encouraging us to cast a critical eye at what is being promoted by porn and where it is taking us.

  20. NoPornNorthampton.org discusses the April 29 New York Times article about Kink.com at
    https://nopornnorthampton.org/2007/05/03/kinkcom-bondage-porn-gone-chillingly-cheerfully-corporate-explicit.aspx
    Kink.com is an extreme example of the porn industry’s confused thinking about consent, pain and pleasure. This thinking leads many viewers to conclude women like being coerced in sex.
    “[C]onvicted rapists who [in the 1970s] expressed remorse about their acts of violence, recently [1980s] show no such remorse and often cite as a reason for their guiltlessness that ‘everyone knows women want to be raped; all the porn stuff proves that.'”

  21. Thank you for that pointer to nopornnnorthampton, Adam! That article is just chock full of great research links.

  22. What a lot of rot. The women in these pictures are well paid people who are part of the BDSM community.
    To stifle this is to infringe on the basic Human Rights of individuals who are part of the very caring BDSM community. Such Human Rights violations by organisations such as The Mission Armory Community Collective (How neo nazi does that sound?) are acting in the same way as the Islamic torturers that catsrate men for being homosexual and cut off women’s hands for wearing nail polish.
    It’s also ‘old hat’ to hear the inferance that, as the area in which the building was purchased hasd a large number of at-risk youth, this site will be involved in exploiting them. Again, what a load of rubbish. Why doesn’t the neo nazi organisation start acting against church protected child abuse in it’s own ranks instead? Dig deep you’ll find the evidence.

  23. I find it laughable, really – the straws some people will clutch at in order to avoid the obvious in their attempts to shift the focus of a discussion where the obvious is so obvious it cannot be avoided.
    We started with the juxtaposed images right here and those who were made uncomfortable by the truth of the argument attempted to find an achillie’s heel with the ‘consent’ issue.
    Missing the point? Deliberately, I’d say.
    And now we have Martin desperately defending the commercial sexual torture of women in terms of minority interest and patriarchal capitalism!
    Missing the point?
    Deliberately, I’d say.
    ” Why doesn’t the neo nazi organisation start acting against church protected child abuse in it’s own ranks instead?”
    For the same reasons you defend the commercialised sexual torture of women I’d wager, Martin. Dig deep enough and you’ll find them.

  24. I don’t think focusing on consent is missing the point, since consent is the key here. To give some examples, in all of the situations I give below, the physical actions of the contrasted events are identical. The only difference is the absence or presence of consent.
    Situation A: a penis is inserted into a vagina
    Situation B: a penis is inserted into a vagina
    Situation A was rape; Situation B was making love. The difference? The owner of the vagina in Sample A did not consent to intercourse.
    To give a nonsexual example: my sister takes money from my wallet. If I gave her permission, that’s fine. If I didn’t, that’s theft. Another example: a person punches me. If I consented, that’s boxing. If I didn’t, that’s assault.
    It follows that in the photos discussed here, even if the physical acts are identical, that does not make the situations equivalent.

  25. One comment. In Situations A & B, to understand what’s going on, we also need to realize there can be a difference in intent. No one is simply a penis or a vagina.What is the intent behind the act?

  26. I just don’t see how you can put your emotions onto another person. No you cannot not read into another person’s mind and tell what they are thinking.
    Hell we do not think alike. I am black I watched my entire life through my white friends eyes. According to them everything was honkey dory, but through my eyes it wasn’t. Even as I pointed it out and showed them the disparities. I would never say I knew what someone was going through by just watching them on screen.
    If the person came to me and said I was treated bad, then I would in an all out effort try to find help. But, I do things by a case by case base. And of you are citing drugs, mental instability, bi-polarisim then you’d need to get a better look at American society. I know a lot of pretty high executive people who are all three hate and despise their job and want to get out.
    Now using those as an excuse to kill an entire industry, just doesn’t work.
    Now if these participants want to get out but someone is stopping them, that is entirely wrong and criminal. If it is just situational and life is hard, there are many places that life is hard and people make due without going into an industry they despise. Trust me doing anything you hate, or you feel against will eat at you.
    If they were forced into the industry, and I read in one of these post that some woman was a submissive who wanted out, then by all means do what she did and go to the law. Report them and if Johnny Law isn’t stepping in, there is your moment to crusade on these women rights. I am right behind you picket in hand, letter to whoever I have. If they were forced into it there is you time to crusade on behalf of these women. I can’t abide to any form of no consentual work.
    But for the people who posted they don’t want men lusting after them and that is what porn teaches, I hate to inform them that most of the boys I knew had never seen porn in the 5th grade and yet we still lusted. So did most the girls but usually after one boy in particular.
    The treatment of those prisoners were wrong. It had nothing to do with porn or its rights. It has more to do with these people were in the care and trust of the United States and we did them wrong. They could neither leave or complain, and as I stated before if that is a persons situation by all means through up the signs of protest. Get the behavior modified and cut out. But since you aren’t screaming for all prisons to go, the situation seems different to me.
    I am all for a comparison if these women are behind something besides economics that force them into the agreements. (Meaning it wasn’t consentual) I still believe that everyone should be able to say no, yes even mid-way through the set and if at anytime they can’t we should bare down on those who are responsible for it. If they somehow fear for their lives if they say no then yes I believe it is wrong. The full brunt of the law should come down on those who are inprisoning them and their will.
    I myself have been homeless, without house, roof, shelter, or any means to get food. The chance to get money through porn was given me. (And yes I take offense of stupid comments that belittle men in the same situation as these women you seem to be campioning, hiding behind it belittles the cause seems callous)The different was I just couldn’t do it. It wasn’t my bag of tea. I didn’t condemn the people I knew who did it, for they helped me out a lot while I was homeless and poor. So I told jokes, I danced, I juggled, I broke down an begged for money. I keep looking for away to move out of that state of existance.
    I would suggest that you stop generalizing be more direct about who you are and who you aren’t trying to take the reigns of. Now if Kink.com is breaking laws take them to court.
    I knew lots of girls during my homeless time that had no problem with doing porn at all. I also knew a lot of girls who had a problem with it who were doing horrible things to their bodies to cope with it. For those girls I think making sure their is always a way out is important. I also think making sure the help isn’t judgemental is important, but lots of comments themselves here make it seem like these women are too dumb to do things for themselves.
    For those it didn’t bother, and for those who actually did love the job I think you should back off. You can only help those who want to be helped. Stop belittling people you only add to flame. Do all you can for those who want your help.
    I don’t believe porn is bad, like any other industry it has it good companies and bad ones. But instead of trying to regulate it and weed out the entirely bad ones you are attacking the forest to get to rot. Why not just get to rot.

  27. I watch porn once in a while and believe in the legalization of prostitution.
    But Kink.com is promoting a Violent Torture pornography that does not reflect San Francisco values or the values of the porn or Consensual BDSM community. This is real violence, not kinky play. And the girls smile after the violence and say how much they liked it.
    and here’s something new for those of us who have to walk or drive by Kink.com’s Armory everyday: There are Christmas lights up all along the top of the armory. They are hiring, They even got an award from the Bay Guardian. They had Halloween decorations up. Why are they attracting attention to themselves and the building?
    why are the people of San Francisco allowing torture and violence to be sexualized? “we don’t torture people” say our elected officials, but in SF we allow people to be tortured, and we eroticize torture. and people make money off of it and the city gets tax dollars.
    I’m also worried about the teenage boys I see skateboarding on the Armory steps. Of course they know what’s going on there and of course they try their best to check out the website. What is that teaching them about human sexuality?
    Why is there no real opposition to this? What happened with Casa de las Madres? The battered woman’s shelter that was right next door to the armory. I haven’t seen a single article or news report about this. This is really an outrage.
    Here are some things from the kink.com website: “forced blowjobs”, “forced penetrations” and “the word NO is not in our vocabulary” how is it that they not trying to legitimize rape?

  28. “prostitution is a completely valid profession. It has existed in some form or another throughout the world, throughout history and pretty much comes with being human. Don’t tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body.”
    Blah, blah, blah…
    Prostitution is NOT the world’s oldest profession. The first recorded forms of prostitution occur after humans invented slavery! (Gerda Lerner, The Creation of Patriarchy;1987).
    We do know that many women choose enter the sex industry, but under which conditions do they choose? The sex industry has done a great job in focusing the debate on “women’s choices”, while the focus of any discussion on the subject should be on the consumers who CHOOSE to use pornography, and, in the case of prostitution, on the johns who CHOOSE to buy women for sex.
    Most prostituted and pornographized women are survivors of child sexual abuse. Some studies estimate that, in the U.S.A., the percentage of women in prostitution, who are survivors of child sexual abuse, is closer to 85%.
    Other social factors such as poverty, unemployement, or homelessness can make some women enter the sex industry.
    On top of that, some women who seek “careers” in the pornography industry because this whole pornified culture promotes the “porn star” job as a glamorous job. From hit movies to music videos, the images of the stripper and “the happy hooker” are shown as “liberating” and “empowering” for women. Some young girls unfortunately get to believe the pernicious ideologies that the media industries (whose owners, managers, producers and broadcasters are predominantly men) want them to believe. This culture obviously trains women and girls to be sexually available for the pleasure of men. However, even those women and girls — who “choose” to enter the stripping or porn industry after having had a harmful pornifed cultural and social training — do not choose the conditions in which they will “work”.
    Also, sex trafficking occurs either domestically and internationally. Selling human beings’ (especially women’s and girls’) bodies is one of the world’s most important sources for trafficking, besides the trafficking in guns and drugs. There is no need to try to differentiate prostitution from trafficking. Trafficking is merely prostitution on a globalized scale.
    There are methods of control pimps use to break down their victims’ emotional, psychological and physical resistance and to season them into prostitution and, sometimes, the making of pornography. These techniques of control and domination involve beating, raping and torturing women and girls into submission. They also involve showing women pornography to instruct them on how to “perform” in prostitution. Through the great amount of research that has been made on prostitution, there is a good reason to believe that pornographers probably have the same techniques of control. It becomes so obvious when you read about it. Once, she has been seasoned by a pimp, a prostituted woman or girl is expected to do anything the john wants. She has to endure all kinds of bodily violations and invasions and must service many anonymous men every day, while pretending that she enjoys these violations. Whatever are the circumstances in which she entered the sex industry, a woman or girl often endures pimps’ techniques of control.
    No matter how a woman who is in pornography has entered the industry, she will have to face the highly likely:
    — psychological harms, such as PTSD, or “dissociation”, which means that she has to mentally “split” to be able to put up with what she does and survive the brutal uses of her body. Fragmenting the mind into parts as well as separating mind from body are essential. That’s all part of the dissociation process. Of the 854 prostituted respondents interviewed by researchers, 68% met the criteria for PTSD;
    — bodily harms: considering the fact that pornography producers always have to make increasingly more violent and degrading materials due to the increasingly desensitized users’ demand to push the envelope, the unbelievable amount of bodily harms these women suffer is abject. Taking a close look at pornography in a non-sexual way makes obvious that these women suffer daily: choked until they cry, forced to perform extreme sexual practices, beaten, slapped, tortured and bruised, these women must horribly suffer inside of that industry. Tears in the body and throat must be awfully painful. Sometimes, during the scenes, the women forget to act: they do not even attempt to fake moans of pleasure anymore, they are in pain and focused on being able to survive through the scene;
    — emotional pain: Women in pornography and prostitution cannot always mentally dissociate properly and they often undergo serious depressions and nervous breakdowns due to the emotional pain of being sexually degraded and having their bodies being awfully used and abused. Many prostituted and pornographized women suffer various mood disorders;
    — health risks: The use of condoms in the American porn industry is below 20%. As a former porn performer once put it: “We get tested monthly but we know testing isn’t prevention. Besides worrying about catching diseases from porn sex, there are other harmful activities we engage in that are also very dangerous. Some of us have had physical tearing and damage to internal body parts…”; and
    — drug addiction: Just like in any other form of prostitution, pornography actresses use drugs (both illegal ones and prescription ones) in great amount to be able to numb themselves to the continual objectifying intimate use of their bodies and the pain of being used and abused.
    A former porn performer once said: “What I saw were women just like myself who were desperate, addicted to drugs, homeless, and I’m sure probably at least 80 percent of them suffered from sexual abuse as children. I saw them re-living their childhood experiences by getting into that industry. They were looking for attention, pleasing men, and being abused. And that’s all they know. They think it’s great. They think it’s wonderful. I could’ve looked you in the eye ten years ago and told you that I loved being in pornography, was proud of what I was doing and that I was having a great time. But now I can tell you that it’s so far from the truth. I was very convincing. I could convince you. I mean, I could walk up to a porn star today and she could tell me the same story and I can remember being in that place.”
    The idea that women in porn make a lot of money is itself a distortion, fueled by intense media focus on the few Jenna Jamesons of the world. Most women in porn do not get rich, particularly since they have a very brief “shelf life” — so even if they initially command a high rate per scene or per movie, their market value as “fresh meat” declines rapidly.
    For more information, please check out these pages:
    https://www.againstpornography.org/takeacloserlook.html
    https://www.againstpornography.org/womeninsexindustry.html
    Prostitution is far away from being about sexual freedom! Prostitution and pornography are inherently forms of sexual exploitation and violence against women (inside and outside of the industry)!
    80% to 95% of all prostitution is pimp-controlled.
    The average age of entry into prostitution is 13 years or 14 years.
    Of 100 prostituted women interviewed in Vancouver (Canada), 90% had been physically assaulted in prostitution; 78% had been raped; 75% had suffered bodily injuries; and 67% had pornography made of them.
    Legalization does not stop the exploitation. A Critical Examination of Responses to Prostitution in Four Countries (Australia, Ireland, the Netherlands, and Sweden) concluded the legalization in Australia and the Netherlands led to a dramatic increase in all facets of the sex industry, a dramatic increase in the involvement of organized crime in the sex industry, a dramatic increase in child prostitution, an explosion in the number of foreign women and girls trafficked into the region, and indications of an increase in violence against women.
    What happens on Kink is beyond horrible!
    This is “Gynocide” (i.e. as Dworkin explained: gynocide is the mass-raping, crippling, or killing of women by men.) That’s what pornography is: Gynocide! Looks like times haven’t really changed. Looks like the slaughter of nine million women as witches or any other major crimes against women weren’t enough to satisfy HIS hunger for female pain and suffering. The patriarchist always wants more!
    In a patriarchal society, ‘choice’ or ‘consent’ depends mostly on who is really in power! It is so easy for the sex industry to focus the debate on women and girl’s choice. While, in fact, a more fair conversation whould take into account the fact that men CHOOSE to use pornography, they CHOOSE to buy women for sex! What about them, the users, huh? How about turning the conversation toward them, instead of focusing it on so many women who have been so harmed, so muted, so silenced by mass-sexual abuse.
    It is easy for some people to speak of Kink as just being some bad, terrible, sadistic porn (i.e. “not the kind of porn they would watch”). However, a recent study, “Mapping the Pornographic Text: Content Analysis of Popular Pornography” (2007), by Robert Wosnitzer, Ana Bridges and Michelle Chang, concluded that 90% of contemporary mainstream pornography contained scenes of aggression.
    Pornography is the “graphic depiction of women as being the lowest type of whores” (according to the history and etymology of the word “pornography”), by the way. Thus, rejecting pornography’s cruelty and misogyny does not mean being against sex! The pornographic sex is all about the disconnection from truly meaningful feelings and the objectification, humiliation and degradation of women. Sex can be much better than this narrow definition of sexuality as “domination/subordination”. Sex can be about humanity, connection, tenderness, love and respect for the other.
    And besides, research has shown that prolonged exposure to pornography resulted in:
    — a loss of compassion toward women as rape victims and toward women in general;
    — a desensitization to violent, hardcore pornography;
    — an increasing acceptance of rape myths; and
    — a need for more explicit, rougher, and more degrading images to get the same “highs” and “sexual turn-ons.”
    If only men learned how to be real human beings with genuine respect and love for others, they would stop using pornography, they would stop buying women, they would stop this atrocious and widespread crime against women!!!

  29. The question of whether or not the kink.com models consent or enjoy the torture has been rehearsed ad nauseam in this thread. The analogy between porn and prostitution has also been done to death.
    Most of what has been written (on both sides of the argument) is speculation – there are undoubtedly some models who are geniunely masochistic, just as there are some who pretend to enjoy the torture because it pays. There are also some models who choose to drop out of postgraduate education because they can make more money in porn, just as there are some who are helplessly trafficked into porn as Melissa Farley describes.
    But endless speculation about consent, enjoyment, and financial motivation is missing the point. From the comfort of his own laptop, the armchair BDSM enthusiast neither knows nor cares about the model’s consent, her enjoyment of her treatment, or why she is in the studio in the first place. He cares for the images he takes away and for the fantasy of the model’s non-consent.
    In short, BDSM becomes a problem when it is filmed and promulgated. If your boyfriend or girlfriend wants to be tied up and flogged there is no problem – you know that he/she is consenting for the sake of enjoyment. But once the sadistic act becomes divorced from actual human interaction, it becomes much more dangerous – it is sadism in the complete absence of explicit consent or of co-responsibility. The internet viewer has absolutely no responsibility for, nor interest in, the model’s welfare.
    Sadism breeds sadism, and people who enjoy BDSM inevitably seek out increasingly extreme porn. The fact that images of Californian women being tortured are available all over the world is dangerous for women everywhere.

  30. The comment by Maggie Hays sums up my experience as a stripper in many ways. The only difference is my boss and the management were women and they were perfectly content to exploit us women just as any man would. I have known women who got into porn and prostitution and I know all about how sex work often leads to violence and S/M. Sex work is inherently violent as it demands the objectification of the person, and what is happening at Kink is merely the final result of a warped and morally bankrupt industry. That is why porn should be outlawed as should strip clubs. These are only legalised forms of prostitution. I saw so much abuse and violence at criminality at my club, it was insane. Prostitution was openly being conducted as was drug dealing. And we were all regularly physically and mentally abused by the patrons and the staff. I have been viciously attacked by pro-stripper apologists on stripperweb.com for my testimony, which shows how people on the pro-sex industry side have zero compassion for sex workers and don’t want the truth about the business to be disseminated on the internet.

  31. There’s a very real danger here, and it isn’t just to the men and women involved in the porn industry.
    It’s the degradation of the entire ethical fabric of society.
    I’m in my sixties, and I’m a man. I remember when I was a kid, how much I wanted to see pornography.
    It’s typical. But the world I lived in, America of the fifties and early sixties, didn’t offer pron to children. If we did get our hands on a magazine, it was of the pin-up variety.
    The point I’m getting to, is that when we looked at pornography, we knew it was wrong. We may not of known anything about the objectification of women, and the tendency of the male brain to be addicted to pornography, thereby rendering us less capable of forming healthy relationships with women, we knew it was wrong because our parents, the church, the media, the cops, our teachers, and everyone else in our world said it was. We lived in a different moral environment.
    The fact that children can and do access this material, and the effect that porn has on their development, is a frightening prospect for the future of relationships. What will the next great technological inventions produce?
    I don’t care what people do in the privacy of there bedrooms. Humans are pretty creative.
    What has happened to our dignity, our honor, and our sense of community?
    It takes courage to take a stand against the norm. I think back, and it was women who changed the country’s attitude towards drunk driving. I think it will take organized women to change this.
    Good luck. It’s a billion dollar industry.

  32. Some very late comments. Betsy Warrior I have reproduced your comment on my blog. I hope you don’t object to this, as you didn’t object to it being reproduced on a similar blog.
    Secondly re the use of pornographic images. I think description should suffice – and it is now ILLEGAL to possess certain images of sexual torture in the UK, so I did not click on the link anyway.
    However as the Abu Ghraib photo has been reproduced worldwide, and the kink.com image was produced as internet pornography – and the model does not know who will view it anyway, or how they will use it – the argument about using them without permission seems a very weak attempt to find any weapon to attack the post author with on moral grounds. I suppose kink.com may complain about copyright infringement….

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